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Time for a little rant on artist/fan relationships - Micole Khemarrica
khromat
khromat
Time for a little rant on artist/fan relationships
I've recently had to listen to my coug'r as he dealt with an upset fan. Now, Ken Sample is a household name in furry fandom, and so dealing with the occassionally cluelessly-irate fan is one of the costs to that fame. The frustration comes in what these people are irate about.

There is some mistaken belief that Ken *owes* fandom anything, that he should be happy that a person is willing to spend money on his work, that he should be glad for any free advertising comes out of (illegally) posting his art on various sites, etc. This attitude is both confusing and unjustified, but nevertheless it keeps appearing, especially among the newer members of the furry community. As if, because a person wanted the art badly enough to rearrange their schedule, it's on the artists' head. As if we were telepathic and are obligated to serve the loudest thought in the room. As if we should cringe at the thought of anyone withdrawing their patronage from us, and that we should be art-slaves chained to the fickle desires of money-baring egocentrics.

Folks, the bottom line about all this: Ken (or any furry artist) doesn't owe furry fandom ANYTHING. Just because Ken and I were among the folks that helped create the fandom in the beginning doesn't mean we are beholden to the fandom in any way, nor does it mean the fandom owes us anything. After all, we are fans too! There is no membership fee required to be a member of furrydom, just the concept of bringing something into the community that we are a part of.

Unlike other fandom communities, furrydom is comprised of amateurs and hobbiests with a common interest -- "professional furs" don't exist yet. That means that we're pretty much all at the same level: artists, writers, costumers, crafters, and the people who don't do any of the above but appreciate any and/or all of them. Sure, there are some people more 'famous' than others; people who have some status for being published or a professional animator or even just being a "greymuzzle" and being involved in this young fandom from the beginning. The only thing that really separates the 'pro-fan' and 'fan' from the 'fanboy' seems to be respect. As in, fanboys demand it but never get it, while pro-fans have it without question and seem happy to give it as well. The average fan is somewhere in the middle, respecting some people and showing no respect for other people.

Returning to the current issue: In general, most artists (furry or otherwise) draw for themselves, not for any monetary gain -- receiving money for what I enjoy doing is a nice gesture of appreciation, but it's not the be-all and end-all of being an artist. Like many of my artistic friends, I will draw whether or not anyone sees it. It's a means to get out ideas, emotions, beliefs, work out internal or expressing political issues. And, in general, artists tend to gravitate towards other artists, social circles that often express friendship to each other by art. It's not a clique, as some non-artists would call it, it's just a natural behavioral pattern of associating with others who have similar interests or think in similar ways (and the artistic mind is definitely different!) Ken and I enjoy drawing for and "tweeking" our friends, and perhaps that seems to be what irks these fanboys most. They see new art on his site and assume that it's all commission work, work done by someone's request with a paycheck attached. So, when they don't get the same kind of 'consideration' -- be it that they missed out on the limited window of opportunity or that they didn't have any funds at the time -- they attack with stupid allegations and outright lies to bully their way into getting what they believe they 'deserve'. Wrong attitude, wrong way to approach an artist.

Now, because of this one particular being doing exactly that to Ken, my coug'r has withdrawn a bit from furry fandom. For the first time in years, he was doing commission requests at a con, and this idiot has now ruined it for anyone in the future who wanted a sketch from the "famous" Ken Sample. Heck, Ken was trying out a new item to sell by having his laminator and laptop at the con so he could make professional-quality badges, and that was the big reason this person missed out on the window he was "told" to show up so he could get a commission, berating Ken for reneging on a non-existant promise. Ken may well decide the badges were too much stress (because of this after-con frustration) and won't offer them at a con, as well.

People need to understand that even for the most mercenary merchant out there, if an event isn't fun for them they'll just move on to another venue. For those of us who aren't particularly mercenary and have so much going on at a convention with all the various pulls for our attention, if it stops being fun for us we'll just stop doing anything that isn't fun. And if that means not accepting any sketchbooks during the con, so be it. I know it will upset a lot of good people, but they will respect our decision and not harass us in email in a futile attempt to guilt us into changing our minds.

Yes, a few people can ruin it for everyone. *sigh*

Current Mood: aggravated aggravated
Current Music: Rachet & Clank: Going Commando

23 comments or Leave a comment
Comments
(Deleted comment)
kagur From: kagur Date: September 9th, 2004 10:27 pm (UTC) (Link)
I am very sorry to hear that Ken has to deal with such fans::sigh::
twentythoughts From: twentythoughts Date: September 10th, 2004 03:47 am (UTC) (Link)
As you say, if it ain't fun, and it ain't essential, don't bother! Those who think otherwise won't see the light, so to speak, whether one does these things or not.
shockwave77598 From: shockwave77598 Date: September 10th, 2004 07:11 am (UTC) (Link)
Such people exist everywhere in life. There is no escaping them. The best way to deal with those who think the universe "owes them" is to give them all the attention they deserve - namely, none.

Remind the cougar of the rule of ten. People are more motivated to complain than to praise, which is nothing new in human behavior actually. If 10 people loved something and 10 hated it, you can count on all 10 who hated it to complain loudly and fervently, but only 1 of the people who loved it will politely say so. With today's modern communications, one can get the impression that the world is filled with crybabys, when actually the opposite is true.
doodlesthegreat From: doodlesthegreat Date: September 10th, 2004 07:55 am (UTC) (Link)
I can certainly understand Ken's response to such boorish behavior. Now whenever I hear folks ask why Ken's so reclusive, I can point to Mr. Richard Wright as an typical example. As well as an example of why folks like Doug Winger rarely show up at cons at all.

My sympathies to you both.
dustmeat From: dustmeat Date: September 10th, 2004 10:35 am (UTC) (Link)

art 'snobs'

>>And, in general, artists tend to gravitate towards other artists, social circles that often express friendship to each other by art. It's not a clique, as some non-artists would call it, it's just a natural behavioral pattern <<

hear hear!
From: (Anonymous) Date: September 10th, 2004 07:10 pm (UTC) (Link)

Is this the same guy?. (part #1)

Topic: Some furry artists asses need to meet my foot.
(Now playing at the Crushyiffdestroy.com's forum).

Big Evil Ogre
Location: Colorado
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 7:42 am
Post subject: Some furry artists asses need to meet my foot.


Hey all. I'm new here so if I do anything against the rules or something, please forgive me and I'll fix it. I was told about this place, and figured it would be perfect to mention my most recent rant.

Now me, I am a furry... sorta. But a CLEAN one. I don't go buyin' furry spooge art and stuff. I just commission illos of my characters for a fic I tried writing once. I tried to commission an artist for years. First time I can RECALL was in 98. I tried time and again. I knew he took sketchbook commissions, so I tried at cons. He can't say he doesn't take sketchbooks because he always had PILES of them at his table. His style was perfect for a certain character. Anyway, he always said no until at Anthrocon earlier this year. He finally broke down and told me "Come in first thing in the morning and I'll do one for you."

I mentioned how I had to fly out, but I'd call and see if I could arrange something, and I postponed my flight at $50 fee for the sudden change. So I showed up, but he never did. His wife was there but she couldn't do anything, not even sell me a print or CD. Now, until recently my job was to chase bad cheques. Someone writes a bad cheque, I'm the guy that gets the money. There is an old saying, "Never write a cheque your ass can't cash." and that's what he did. So I waited and emailed, no reply. Waited more and still no reply. Finally a freind asked and suddenly he saw fit to RESPOND! Basically his take was "I met someone in the hall and was held back. Shit happens".

Son of a BITCH! I went through all that and all he could say was "Shit happens" He's going to be lucky if I don't lay him out thinner then the jelly in a pop tart!

Thoughts? Ideas?
Thanks for listening.
_________________

Big Evil Ogre
Location: Colorado
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 6:00 am
Post subject: Some furry artists asses need to meet my foot.


Actually I haven't been stalking him. I haven't even avaraged asking once a year. I ask passing by at the occasional con, maybe two emails. No money changed hands, YET. We had a time and a place to meet and a price we agreed on. I think $35.

I don't stalk. Sure I obsess a little, but I don't hound anyone. I don't DO rude or obnoxious. It isn't my style. I work in customer service, I know how to act AS a customer if not better than most customers.

Basically all I wanted was to share my story, maybe hear other's experiences. I feel like I'm being made out as the bad guy here. Trust me, I commissioned over 200 furry artists, each and every one would have good thigns to say. Sure I may be a little odd in thier eyes, I'm a biker. I'm a little different. But I always keep other people's feelings in mind, not always succeeding but I like to think I have a good track record. Sure, he had the right to say no. But he never DID. He told me to try him at a con because he was not taking commissions, but he'd do a sketch. I struck out each time because he got booked too quickly. I moved on and got others.

He's just rude. He's just unprofessional, and he's an asshole. He's a standard elitist furry artist who feels they're too good for the fans. In other words, he's a male Tygger.
_________________
From: (Anonymous) Date: September 10th, 2004 07:12 pm (UTC) (Link)

Is this the same guy?. (part #2)

Big Evil Ogre
Location: Colorado

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:04 am
Post subject: Some furry artists asses need to meet my foot.


What exactly is different? I'm sure if I posted it exactly you'd say I was just posting from a pre written script. So go on ahead, point out the differences. You are aware that in court, where I spent a LOT of time, the last thing that ever happens is the same story told the same way twice. That brings on suspicion. I'm sure if you went to my livejournal, there will be differences as well.

Guess what, the bible was written different ways. It happens. I focused on different parts, I was also less pissed off this time around, I had also been further discussing my issues with said artist. Point out the differences please. Give me a chance to explain. Otherwise all you are doing is looking to make the bad guy out of me.

He IS busy. But the fact you continuously overlook is I am upset because he said he'd do something, then he didn't. It was rude. It was unprofessional, and it is a bigger problem in furry than I have personally seen in others.

I read the posts, I don't see a hell of a lot of difference. The biggest being the "I was chasing after" where I plainly pointed out that it was a bad way to put it and exlpained the issue. Do you want me to leave? Don't give me that "Well if you feel you must" noise. Answer the question. Do you all want me to leave? You want me gone? Yes or no. Simple one word answer. I mean damn, you read so much between the lines you're not reading the actual lines with it.
_________________

Big Evil Ogre
Location: Colorado

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:27 am
Post subject: Some furry artists asses need to meet my foot.


Man, sorry, I'm getting cranky. It's 4 am. I apologize if I'm getting tempermental. AND a bit absent minded.

It's hard to describe how I can tell he has an ego. It's like trying to describe the look in somoene's eyes when they're trying to tell you something without words and be convincing about it.

I kept in mind he may have been held up or something happened. It's his inability to reply that turned it rude. Plus he had his wife there. He could have told her to pass on "He's been held up. I'm sorry.", she didn't know what he was doing or where he was. If you went to a convention with your wife wouldn't you pretty much know those things? That seemed suspicious. Plus he didn't reply to the emails I sent when she told me to. That set off another alarm. Finally a freind managed to get in touch for me. He was kind, though not greatly tactful, he was cordial.

My Email in reply to what he said to me and my freind wasn't as nice. But it wasn't terribly unprofessional either. I didn't use fowl language and told him why I was disappointed. He turned into a drama queen "Because of you I will never take a commission again!" (In a nutshell)

Now sure, I was stern. But I sure wasn''t evil.
How hard would it have been to just email my reply when I asked why he didn't show?
I'm not saying he didn't have the right. I'm saying he's an asshole.

I had hoped for a better welcome. But right now I don't know why I should keep posting anything at all. I feel like I'm on fakeout and a bad truth teller. I have witnesses, but they despise you guys for things like this. They won't come in and say "Yeah, I was there when so-and-so said he'd be there and I waited with him for this artist."

Come on cut me a break here. So I'm a bad story teller. But it's the truth. If you don't like how I explain things, tell me to go away. Yes, or no. No "Do what you feeel you need" cop outs.
_________________
From: (Anonymous) Date: September 10th, 2004 07:13 pm (UTC) (Link)

Is this the same guy?. (part #3)

Big Evil Ogre
Location: Colorado

Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:32 am
Post subject: Some furry artists asses need to meet my foot.


Thanks for the support and sorry for coming on strong. Old habits die hard. Before being a deli worker I worked in collections, not the guy who calls you and asks, I'm the one they send to the bank, or to your door with court papers or papers to garnish wages. I had to be agressive, eventually it became something I do naturally. Trust me, I'm not so bad in person.

Now this artist... his name is... Ken Sample aka Coug'r
He's at www.Pumapaw.com

Other artists that burned me are Tygger, out of some $170 worth of stuff, but I usually round to $200 because then there's extra shipping I sent but didn't record, as well as a gift from China I sent.

Also got burned by a ho' named Beverly Toole. She accused me of selling her fiction. I want to be a writer, she and I were doing a crossover. I showed a publisher three pages I wrote for the crossover, no sign at all about anything of hers, and she went ballistic. Even had her freinds sending hate mail. She isn't even a big fish! I submitted the pages to see what he thought of my technique (Where he said I sucked). I mean, I make mistakes. I made them with about everyone. But I have been willing to stand up and take my punishment, usually a spanking... they want to run me over with a truck

AS for me being furry... or not... that I'm not sure about. It depends on what you consider to be a furry. I have fantasy characters that are primarily lycanthrope that spend a majority of thier time in a hybrid state. Most art I have is of them in that state. But, I don't go around in a fursuit humping stuffed animals or other furries or collect furry porn. In fact, out of everything I have, I have ONE pic with furry bare boobs. It was a fan pic. If anyone here has ever seen ANY art of a female furry boxer, there's a 99% chance she's mine. A good 75% chance if it boxing related period.
THAT is why I wanted an image from Sample. His art style preferring muscular females would compliment my character Sierra. It was a thought out decision. KnowhatImean?

If I am a furry in your opinions, I am not a perverted furry. If I am not a furry, I might be inclined to agree. I haven't checked Pumapaw.com, but if he left my name and Email up at his site, I'm open to suggestions. I can't afford an attorney. Not like I expect a stampede of fanboys or something.
_________________
khromat From: khromat Date: September 10th, 2004 09:15 pm (UTC) (Link)

Yes, it's him...

I read those comments aloud for my coug'r, who commented that it's interesting how the story changed.

In fact, one of the issues was the 'sent emails'... Ken didn't remember seeing anything from him until after his 'friend' started this brouhaha. After digging around his mail, he discovered why: Mr. Big Evil Ogre's email was tagged by SpamAssassin as spam. Since our anonymous poster decided to post all these useful (?!) quotes from Mr. Wright, I think this is a good place to continue the story by posting what coug'r found in his Spam folder...
----------------------------

SPAM: -------------------- Start SpamAssassin results ----------------------
SPAM: This mail is probably spam. The original message has been altered
SPAM: so you can recognise or block similar unwanted mail in future.
SPAM: See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
SPAM:
SPAM: Content analysis details: (7.40 hits, 5 required)
SPAM: SUB_HELLO (1.6 points) Subject starts with "Hello"
SPAM: NO_REAL_NAME (1.3 points) From: does not include a real name
SPAM: FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS (0.9 points) From: ends in numbers
SPAM: SPAM_PHRASE_03_05 (1.1 points) BODY: Spam phrases score is 03 to 05 (medium)
SPAM: [score: 3]
SPAM: MIME_LONG_LINE_QP (0.3 points) RAW: Quoted-printable line longer than 76 characters
SPAM: RCVD_IN_ORBS (2.2 points) RBL: Received via a relay in orbs.dorkslayers.com
SPAM: [RBL check: found 4.137.12.64.orbs.dorkslayers.com.]
SPAM:
SPAM: -------------------- End of SpamAssassin results ---------------------

--part1_3b.49cf7bc1.2e265e0e_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi!
I'm that big hopeless fanboy that's been begging for a pic by ya. I remember
Saturday I asked, you told me to come in early Sunday morning. I couldn't
because I had to fly out yadda yadda yadda... I managed to get a flight an hour
and a half later, but I didn't catcha. I talked to your wife and she seemed to
ME to be confident I could con... er convince ya to do one for me. Though I may
have read more into it than she intended, which would be my bad. I had been
wanting to get something from you as long as I can remember. I got Terrie
Smith, Michele Light, Shawntae Howard *repeatedly* and Max Blackrabbit and
approximately 200 others. If I can get you, and mebbe Robert Newell I'd be able to die
happy. (Which people who know me, could be any time. If I survive to 30 I'll
have beat the spread)
To be honest, all joking aside I have almost gotten the impression that
you're avoiding me. I sent some snail mail's a long time ago before I learned any
manners, got me into trouble with Tygger. I may have done something or said
something to bring about some hard feelings. Shawntae and Max can assure you, I
am easy to work with. Shawntae and I been freinds since 96. Terrie and I
longer. Freindship is great, but I never really hope for much more than a nice work
of art. You have THE perfect art style for what I'm wanting.
Anyway, I hope you'll give me a chance. Just an inked, one character (Though
two would be nice) illo.
In the meantime, hope you had fun at AC and I wish ya the best of luck in the
future! Stay coo' man, keep making those nice artworks.
Richard A. Wright AKA The Big Evil Ogre

Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most.
--part1_3b.49cf7bc1.2e265e0e_boundary--
------------------------------------------------------

It's interesting to note that there was *two* copies of this same email within the one email, which might have been another reason Spam Assassin didn't like it...
and due to LJ's 4300 character limit, I clipped it out here.

I wonder why I seem to be plagued by ogres? :/ :3
doodlesthegreat From: doodlesthegreat Date: September 11th, 2004 08:57 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: Yes, it's him...

I read those comments aloud for my coug'r, who commented that it's interesting how the story changed.

Well, he's a deli worker. He's used to dishing out baloney...
khromat From: khromat Date: September 10th, 2004 10:22 pm (UTC) (Link)

...and now, a rebuttal to Mr. Wright....

It really is remarkable how different people perceive the same event in completely different ways, and noting his comments regarding *me*, here's a few corrections to his rendition of events.

1) At no time did Ken *ever* promise to do a sketch. His usual statement is (and I quote) "If you get here early enough to beat out the crowds, and I make it here early enough, I _might_ get a sketch done for you." Nowhere in that statement is a guarantee to perform a service, nor would it qualify as a verbal agreement in any court of law.

2) Mr. Ogre might find it "curious" that I wouldn't know exactly where Ken was, but I suspect he'll never have the kind of close-knit relationship as I have with Coug'r. We both own cellphones, and use them during a con to keep each other informed if there was a delay or problem. I knew Ken said he needed to step away from the table for a bit, and that's all I really needed to know. It's not like I have to worry about the coug'r being absent... neither of us are that insecure with ourselves and our place in the other's life.

3) Ken doesn't lie to anyone about anything. Period. He has no _reason_ to lie. If he doesn't like you, he'll tell you up front without hesitation or reservation. If he knows in advance he can't make an appointment, he'll make arrangements to handle the inconvenience. He's not a flake, he's not a snob, and he's not a mercenary. If being self-assured and not backing down from a baseless dispute is what consititutes an asshole, so be it. My house is *full* of assholes, myself included. Heck, Wolf is *proud* to be called an asshole. It's just a word, and words only have the power you give them.

4) At a convention, no matter who you are, you are going to be bombarded... the sights, sounds, and everything in between demands on your time: folks you want to meet or expected to meet or expect to meet you, panels to attend, and meals to plan out among a number of fen which is about as organized as herding ferrets. As a dealer, we have a different priority system... which makes all the above activities twice as crazy as it's necessarily compressed into a smaller block of time (after all, we try to spend as much time in the Dealers Room during operating hours as possible). The fact that Ken couldn't post-con remember why he wasn't at his table isn't a lie... it's a casualty of a con. Heck, I *rarely* remember new name/face combos at a con, which is why I ask folks to email me post-con to remind me of the discussion.

Of course, I get the kind of fanboys who don't even remember what I look like outside of my overhang (incident at Confurence 7), so I honestly don't expect much of things planned at cons actually happening or being remembered. Which is why both Ken and I hold to the view that "Shit Happens", the phrase Mr. Ogre found so unprofessional.

Dude, we are NOT PROFESSIONALS. We do not make our living doing furry art... heck, I can't think of a single furry artist who does! All the 'professional illustrators' do other *non-furry* work as their dayjobs. Clues are obviously hard to come by. *sigh*
beoweasel From: beoweasel Date: September 11th, 2004 02:50 am (UTC) (Link)

OGRE IS A MORON

Ugh, why do people do this? Why? Why is it when ever somebody whose deeply worried about a friend and posts it, there has to be a at least somebody whose going to get all bitchy and moany becrying that he didn't do something or other.

Look Ogre, furry artists are talented folk, BUT THEY AREN'T SAINTS. You, a stranger, are poking at Cougr for free artwork, Now think about that for a liittle bit. How would you like it if somebody on the street came up to you and asked you to take time out of your life to do work for them for nothing?

You'd say most likey "Bugger off." Cougr doesn't KNOW YOU. You're not his friend, you're not his chum, you're a stranger to him, and you'd bug him for free artwork? Christ man, that takes gall. I've never asked for free stuff from Coug, I have in the past asked for premission to use some of his characters (some of my buddies did artwork for me featuring Dracopuma but needed Coug's Ok) and from his replies, he seems alright to me.

People need to realize that artwork of the quality that artists such as Cougr, Gideon, SueDeer, etc. TAKES TIME, a lOT of TIME. Thats time out of their LIVES THAT CANNOT BE REPLACED, understand? They could be spending such time doing more important things, like making money from artwork that PEOPLE PAY THEM TO DO.

I'm sick and tired of listening to people whine and bitch about Artists not giving them free stuff, jeezus christ, THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO THIS, MORON, they could simply just give up, and what do they loose? Not much. What do we loose? A very talented artist, thats impossible to replace. Its like shooting yourself in the foot.

I'm going to this rant now, I'm so hopping mad, I can't see straight
From: alabarorcana Date: September 11th, 2004 11:02 pm (UTC) (Link)
Look, I can understand where Ken is coming from here, and yes, I don't believe either of you owe the fandom anything.

But at the same time, the fandom doesn't owe you guys squat. Saying you helped create the fandom is like saying Al Gore helped create the internet. The technology, or in this case, the interested in furs has been around for a long long time. And I think its kind of rotten to use that to try to get respect.

I respect Ken Cougar already, as an artist, and as a person. Even though I haven't met the man, I respect him. However, I don't need to be told I should respect him, because my god, the fandom wouldn't be here without him, or you for that matter.

I apologize if this seems rude, but you kinda need to get off the high horse here, the fandom would still have formed whether you helped it or not. Don't take credit for something that was in every fur fan to begin with.

-Alabar (Candid Opinions for 5 cents)
From: alabarorcana Date: September 11th, 2004 11:14 pm (UTC) (Link)
Oh, and I should note however, I understant Ken's work at conventions, and thats awesome, the above post was not meant to diminish his contributions to the fandom.
khromat From: khromat Date: September 12th, 2004 09:03 pm (UTC) (Link)

No suckups, please.

Obviously you came here via the link (which I won't place here).... and just as obvious, you really didn't read what I said.

I agree completely, fandom doesn't owe US squat. I even said that.

And I'm not like Al Gore.... I *was* at the beginning, I saw it all (from the SoCal node, at least). I'm not saying to "worship the creator of fandom", for heaven's sake! And I'm certainly not saying that *Ken and I* were critical for fandom to start. Sheesh!

I'm simply stating THE FACT that Ken and I were AMONG the first folks that formed FURRY FANDOM as an organized body, period. That 21 years ago, enough people had been meeting folks at SF cons to swap furry art in private parties that we ended up starting a convention devoted specifically towards that interst. More than likely, furrydom started before you were born... so you can't (or won't) understand how tired we are dealing with these people who think they're entitled to something they're not.

Yes, there were people before us who felt furry (in any of a myriad of ways). Yes, someone would've eventually organized a convention dedicated to furry. That's obvious, and irrelevant to my statement. As Bill Gates can vouch, it's not who had the idea first, it's who marketed it first that is remembered. :p

Oh, and the title of my post is for your reply to your own comment. Ken HATES that kind of "I hate you and your attitude, but that doesn't stop me thinking your art is really cool" comment ... he calls them 'suck-ups' because that's what it is, and is usually followed by requests for his art.
From: alabarorcana Date: September 12th, 2004 10:02 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: No suckups, please.

Well, I don't want any of his art, and the only reason I mentioned it was, I respect him, you can respect someone and get pissed off at them you know. And is it really sucky upy to account someone's talents for a reason why you respect them? No, I didn't think so, he's doing something I cant do, I cant draw a straight line, so there you have it.

And I'm not saying I hate Ken's attitude, I was just kinda pissed at your attitude, and since you were pretty much speaking for Ken, well, there you are. And whether you meant your post to sound arrogant or not, thats how it came out, at least to me.
khromat From: khromat Date: September 16th, 2004 09:32 pm (UTC) (Link)

Attitudes and who's speaking for whome...

*sigh*

If you don't like my attitude, then you don't like Ken's attitude... because, as I said before, we both have dealt with this issue before.

As for me 'speaking for Ken', this is MY LJ, not Ken-and-my LJ. He doesn't have an LJ, doesn't want one, and will never likely have one. If he wants the world to know something (like this current change in policy), you can just go to his site and read it yourself.

This whole rant of _mine_ results from having a long talk with Ken about his latest fanboy and my subsequent stewing over it. Ken and I talk: it's an important part of our relationship. Unlike most couples, we are completely open to each other, and that includes talking about what annoys us as much as what pleases us. Because of that, I have no hesitation in saying that the attitude you 'perceived' in my rant was the attitude of BOTH of us.

It's not that I'm arrogant. I suspect many of my LJ friends and lurkers who know me had a laugh at _that_ statement. To quote the Miriam-Webster Dictionary (http://www.m-w.com): "Arrogant (adj) 1):exaggerating or disposed to exaggerate one's own worth or importance in an overbearing manner." I am not, nor have I ever exaggerated my own worth, although I do tend to be overbearing when excited (I prefer to call it assertive). If anything, I have a bad habit of undervaluing my worth. I do try, however, to keep a sense of balance, and I'm always willing to give folks second chances. In that way I'm _not_ like Ken -- when he's decided that the other person won't be reasonable, he ends contact. He's not "as nice" as I am, and therefore I'm more likely to be hurt by folks than he is. I accept that. Which is why I bother to answer comments like yours instead of just deleting them from what is technically my online diary.
tuftears From: tuftears Date: September 12th, 2004 12:33 pm (UTC) (Link)
Egads.

Well, here's a possibly silly question, are you and Ken getting anything out of running a con table?

From my perspective, the money isn't a huge amount, since I never had sufficient print sales and sketches just covered costs of meals and the like. Since I had no intention of trying to turn furry art into a second income, it seemed not worthwhile to keep trying to maintain a presence in that arena.

It might be more fun to just relax and take in the con as a wandering artist than sit behind the table... Just tell people who want sketches, 'Sorry, not taking any right now,' unless they're fellow artists who'll trade.
khromat From: khromat Date: September 16th, 2004 09:54 pm (UTC) (Link)
Actually, we _do_ get something out of having a con table: A guaranteed space where we can draw. :D

Seriously, Ken used to hang in Artists' Alley and got tired of having to rush breakfasts just to have a spot to sit at and draw. Me, before I bought a dealers' table, I was running around working the cons in various capacities (panels, security, masquarades, backstage manager, etc.) Nobody could *find* me to ask for sketches and I was often too busy to stop, let alone draw. Ironically, the only sketch time I got was at evening parties!

Now, folks can always find me (or, on those rare times I'm not at my table, know where to leave a message) and usually there's a few dealers nearby me that I *don't* know so I can chat with friends old and new. :3 At least at Anthrocon, though, we're starting to get a rep of all the macro-artists sitting in the same row as our friends like hanging out with us. Not that that's a problem, just a pleasant surprise. ;3


kagur From: kagur Date: September 16th, 2004 10:09 pm (UTC) (Link)
I, for one, really appreciate the table:) Finding an artist at a con who does not have a table and who cannot be so easily found is a major endeavor. Given how busy you are at cons, I sincerely doubt I would be able to find you at all, much less ask for a sketch:)
darklilith69 From: darklilith69 Date: September 12th, 2004 08:00 pm (UTC) (Link)

Time For a LIttle Rant...

Grrrr. I am SO sorry for both you and your coug'r. Ken is one of the sweetest, funniest--when you can get him to smile-- people I've ever met, but he's also reserved. He has his very small circle of friends and people just don't seem to get that kind of thing. I think I'll not tell Ed of this particular incident. He likes Ken alot and when folks do this kind of thing...

...fireworks. *grin*

Supportive hugs to you both from us all.

Kishma/Lily
khromat From: khromat Date: September 16th, 2004 10:54 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Time For a LIttle Rant...

*giggle* Ken laughed when I read your comment!

Nothing more needs to be said here. After all, I remember his battle with the VW and winning. :D
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